IPC Replacement: Reploids

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Design doc for Reploids.

Baby's first repo + branch; I hope I did this right.

There's too many issues with IPCs. There's too many issues with the way they are balanced. There's too many issues with how they interact with opposition, space itself, and lore. For for whatever reason, people also don't like that they can't eat(?).

This addresses all of that and more, and maybe saves the original concept, too. Besides, if this goes through, I get to do some old concept characters more accurately and maybe do some spritework.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Could probably do some bs with EMPs making their vision fuzzy for a second too.

[Teasq]

I don't think having a species that replicates features of other species is healthy honestly. Cannibalizing traits and markings from other species just messes with visual clarity overall and creates a blurrier line between what makes each species unique and fun.

This was, in my opinion, a major issue of the current issue and from what I'm reading will continue to be a major issue with this specific implementation if we just haphazardly port over all of the IPC markings. (Last I counted, IPCs currently outright steal 103 markings from other species and has more "unique" but barely visually distinct synth lizard markings. This means they have VASTLY More customization options that don't even come from their own species.)

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

I don't think having a species that replicates features of other species is healthy honestly. Cannibalizing traits and markings from other species just messes with visual clarity overall and creates a blurrier line between what makes each species unique and fun.

This was, in my opinion, a major issue of the current issue and from what I'm reading will continue to be a major issue with this specific implementation if we just haphazardly port over all of the IPC markings. (Last I counted, IPCs currently outright steal 103 markings from other species and has more "unique" but barely visually distinct synth lizard markings. This means they have VASTLY More customization options that don't even come from their own species.)

Main goal, functionally, is to continue providing a vehicle for players to play who they want. People making synthetc "versions" of existing species would occur in any proposal; be it via a synth trait, or otherwise. However, the issue with the synth trait is the lack of options for durther customization beyond that.

Soujourn 13 had base species and markings for all of them, as well as the option to rename the species to what the player wished. This did not end up doing much to trample the line between the base species; if anything, it encouraged people to lean further on making them distinct. I do understand the concerns with replicating traits, though, and I'm keen on ditching that if sentiment grows against it. The visual customization, however, I still find of Great importance.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

With the previous comment in mind, edited stuff to accomodate those concerns.

[ferynn]

I don't think you can make an IPC counterproposal without addressing and responding to the lore and thematic concerns in the removal. I get you don't really care too much about them, but they were still a major part of the IPC removal.

It needs to be addressed as to how your draft would be different/and or fix the issues.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

ferynn

Addresses this now.

[Teasq]

Main goal, functionally, is to continue providing a vehicle for players to play who they want. People making synthetc "versions" of existing species would occur in any proposal; be it via a synth trait, or otherwise. However, the issue with the synth trait is the lack of options for durther customization beyond that.

In my opinion, being able to "play who you want" should always be a secondary concern over lore, theme and accessibility.
The synth trait allows species to function differently in visuals only in a way that still makes them functionally their own species. The issue that I have with reploids, as I said above, is that the basis of their species is cannibalizing the look and certain mechanics of other species. With the way traits currently work, this is an issue as you'll see arachnids that can fly, harpies that can web spin, etc.

Even without consideration of trait cannibalizing that may or may not happen, reploids will still have the very same issue IPCs had: being CONSTANTLY mistaken for a species that they are not and thus affecting other people's experience simply because they want to play who they want, to which I raise the same argument that I did with IPCs: If you want to play a character that looks like a lizard, play a lizard, etc. Being biomechanical is largely a roleplay thing, and doesn't need further support beyond cybernetics on a per-species basis and traits that you mentioned.

Soujourn 13 had base species and markings for all of them, as well as the option to rename the species to what the player wished. This did not end up doing much to trample the line between the base species; if anything, it encouraged people to lean further on making them distinct. I do understand the concerns with replicating traits, though, and I'm keen on ditching that if sentiment grows against it. The visual customization, however, I still find of Great importance.

I have never played or enganged with content in relation to Soujourn 13, but comparing a server with an entirely different gameplay base, different culture, rules, etc. isn't really productive to the conversation in my opinion. It could entirely be that the issues on that server are not as exacerbated as it is on Funky and therefore deemed a non-issue in exchange for being able to play who you want or the server simply doesn't scrutinize design as heavily as Funky does.

I can speculate all day as to why it works there and why I think it wouldn't work here, but ultimately it's pointless because it's a comparison with more factors at play than just "It works there, it will work here". Greencomms is an example of that.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Teasq

The 'copy traits' idea is already scrapped. It's going a wholly different direction now. Give it a reread! I was simply giving context to what was going through my head in accordance to your feedback, but it very much was applied.

[corresp0nd]

i've set this to request changes, but i do think this is a really good foundation for how the niche of ipcs can be filled. so, keep working on it, think of it less as a "no" and more of a "the middle is still pretty raw, we can bake this for longer"

reploids are a pretty cute idea. they still have that synthetic niche that we want without actually being completely silicon. i like the idea that they're artificial flesh with metal moving parts, it's a cute way to keep them synthetic while still being organic. i particularly love the bit you added about them not having any sort of immune system at all, it's a fun reason as to why they can be modified so heavily without any fuss. it also has the bonus of leading to possible later game systems (they would be great for viro!).

the main thing im worried about is that we don't actually want them to just like, be able to look like other species. this is one of the mistakes we have made prior and we don't want to repeat this. reploids should have a distinct visual style, and while being heavily modified can be a part of that, easily being able to just Look the exact same as another species is completely contradictory.

the second thing i want to bring up is the connotations of a species being artificially made for the exclusive purpose of being a worker. i am not telling you to cut this part of their lore, really we welcome any sort of critique of capitalism, but this is not something we can tack on without careful consideration. i do not want anything that can promote discriminating against fellow players because of lore (think 13's infamous "definitely not slurs" towards lizards and our general policy on the word "clanker").

overall, this is a really good direction, and im excited to see where you take it!

[corresp0nd]

i'm not super seeing how this makes sense, but i would have to hear a little more about how you actually intend this to play out before i can say for sure. i don't really understand why it has to be a species-specific thing rather than just, giving a player a handheld radio, and i'm not really seeing how it works with the overarching idea of reploids. plus there is the part of, well, if a species did get some sort of intrinsic radio, it would be dionae, since they're supposed to be a hivemind. i don't see the same aspect working here

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Space or in situations where communication is inconvenient (in sperated but close halls, etc). I had initially figured it would just rely on Telecomms range, but I figured it would be unwise to let it go that far. Might dcrew with people's gimmicks. As for the 'what is different', the implication'd be that it's built-in, a-la a slime's storage.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Coordinated Comms is dead. Long live Coordinated Comms.

[corresp0nd]

powergamer heaven. drop this

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Okay! Anything that might potentially sit in this niche? Just looking for something that feels suitably like 'I am aware of my body' in comparison.

[corresp0nd]

sort of hard to say? we had a trait called "self aware" that was like this and i ended up hating it. it encourages people to ignore med and just heal themselves completely, which we generally don't want

[corresp0nd]

harpies already fill this niche

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Alright! Dropping this.

[corresp0nd]

not entirely true: while we do want players to be able to create a story, it doesn't inherently have to be in a pure sandbox environment. think of it this way: the game itself is a dungeon master for a tabletop game, the players will make their own choices, and the dm will take into account the players, but the dm ultimately has the final say on what the world is like and what is considered realistic within that world. players respond to the world, not necessarily molding the world to fit themselves.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

For this, I just went off of what Taydeo said in the IPC removal PR near the end, specifically about how if you have things that seem possible but aren't allowed because of lore or some meta-factor, it takes away from said 'sandbox' feel; so I went out if my way to stay away from things that would conflict with that. I get what you're saying too, though.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

i've set this to request changes, but i do think this is a really good foundation for how the niche of ipcs can be filled. so, keep working on it, think of it less as a "no" and more of a "the middle is still pretty raw, we can bake this for longer"

reploids are a pretty cute idea. they still have that synthetic niche that we want without actually being completely silicon. i like the idea that they're artificial flesh with metal moving parts, it's a cute way to keep them synthetic while still being organic. i particularly love the bit you added about them not having any sort of immune system at all, it's a fun reason as to why they can be modified so heavily without any fuss. it also has the bonus of leading to possible later game systems (they would be great for viro!).

the main thing im worried about is that we don't actually want them to just like, be able to look like other species. this is one of the mistakes we have made prior and we don't want to repeat this. reploids should have a distinct visual style, and while being heavily modified can be a part of that, easily being able to just Look the exact same as another species is completely contradictory.

the second thing i want to bring up is the connotations of a species being artificially made for the exclusive purpose of being a worker. i am not telling you to cut this part of their lore, really we welcome any sort of critique of capitalism, but this is not something we can tack on without careful consideration. i do not want anything that can promote discriminating against fellow players because of lore (think 13's infamous "definitely not slurs" towards lizards and our general policy on the word "clanker").

overall, this is a really good direction, and im excited to see where you take it!

• Alright!
• Thank you! I like doing this kind of 'background lore' stuff that lets people extract ideas of their own from an open basis.
• Yeah I'm really leaning towards them being stripped of markings. The first draft had them as replications lf all species...now, though, they're more inline with 'humanoid machines' rather than 'synthetic "everythings".' The sentiment against them potentially being confused for reptilians or vulps is strong enough to remove that aspect entirely; so I don't see a reason to keep in in.
• Could make them 'older;' as in, a particularly old project that took on greater meaning in the modern age. Something like: 'They were intended for [x] purpose, but in the last century (or three), they've taken on new meaning and established colonies of their own in the name of their sponsors.' Something tbat voices the original point and the "why" they exist, while giving newer context that would make that original connotation irrelevant to those who live in the modern age. I do apologize for 'baking in conflict,' too; I'm used to priming settings for conflict in my writing. I suppose such is not needed in Funky!

[corresp0nd]

I do apologize for 'baking in conflict,' too; I'm used to priming settings for conflict in my writing. I suppose such is not needed in Funky!

doing this is perfectly fine, tay particularly loves to try and add class conflict to a lot of their prs (this is the point of scrip, unions, and the direction we're taking revs). i only brought it up because we've had some issues before with specisism and i don't want it to seem like we're encouraging players to keep doing that. it's a hard balance to keep in mind :P

[JoulesBerg]

In general. I think the concept of "but also" should be avoided for uniqueness and flavor.
The specific thing I mean in this case is their ability to consume oil, lube, etc to satiate thirst, but also they can just consume normal stuff also.
Or the proposal that food would also satiate thirst for them, but at a cost of making them slow or something iirc what you wrote.
Both of these are just straight buffs to the species and / or require new species specific implementations / modifers, while not necessarily flavorful or additive to the species uniqueness. IMO they fall in the same lore black hole that cannibalizing species markers falls in.
I think it IS cool and flavorful that they drink synthetic compounds like lube, oil, or welding fluid. But you immediately ruin that flavorfulness by turning around and saying "but if they wanna drink water or milk thats cool too".
Its like trying to PR a change that allows moths to eat normal food. Why? All it does is REMOVE flavor by running it back like that.
Implementing the food satiating thirst thing idk how hard that would or wouldn't be. I forget how the two systems work. But I don't think it would work out of the box, and again, I have to ask the question of "Why is it flavorful for them to be able to satiate thirst by eating food?"
It doesn't really add anything, and detracts from the cool and flavorful idea that they can only satiate thirst with synthetic compounds. Because when I can't find welder fluid conveniently I can just go rob the chef.

There were a couple other things I felt like asking "Why though?" But my general take is theres probably too much stuff in this right now thats half baked (dough in the center) or trying to be too universally appealing, which defeats the purpose of a species imo.

It should be unique, and not necessarily universally appealing, whether because of some significant drawbacks, or whatever.

My personal philosophy would be to take a base species like human, and overall nerf it. Maybe some bonuses here and there to offset SOME bad stuff, but overall the species should be slightly worse from a pure balance perspective, because then the people that play it will play it for the right reasons.

Thats my take anyway.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

In general. I think the concept of "but also" should be avoided for uniqueness and flavor. The specific thing I mean in this case is their ability to consume oil, lube, etc to satiate thirst, but also they can just consume normal stuff also. Or the proposal that food would also satiate thirst for them, but at a cost of making them slow or something iirc what you wrote. Both of these are just straight buffs to the species and / or require new species specific implementations / modifers, while not necessarily flavorful or additive to the species uniqueness. IMO they fall in the same lore black hole that cannibalizing species markers falls in. I think it IS cool and flavorful that they drink synthetic compounds like lube, oil, or welding fluid. But you immediately ruin that flavorfulness by turning around and saying "but if they wanna drink water or milk thats cool too". Its like trying to PR a change that allows moths to eat normal food. Why? All it does is REMOVE flavor by running it back like that. Implementing the food satiating thirst thing idk how hard that would or wouldn't be. I forget how the two systems work. But I don't think it would work out of the box, and again, I have to ask the question of "Why is it flavorful for them to be able to satiate thirst by eating food?" It doesn't really add anything, and detracts from the cool and flavorful idea that they can only satiate thirst with synthetic compounds. Because when I can't find welder fluid conveniently I can just go rob the chef.

There were a couple other things I felt like asking "Why though?" But my general take is theres probably too much stuff in this right now thats half baked (dough in the center) or trying to be too universally appealing, which defeats the purpose of a species imo.

It should be unique, and not necessarily universally appealing, whether because of some significant drawbacks, or whatever.

My personal philosophy would be to take a base species like human, and overall nerf it. Maybe some bonuses here and there to offset SOME bad stuff, but overall the species should be slightly worse from a pure balance perspective, because then the people that play it will play it for the right reasons.

Thats my take anyway.

Well, the idea is for it to be more representative of a "liquid diet" and not necessarily "they drink only x or y." But if you think it would be more flavorful to go the route of having them drink synthetic fluids, I'm more than willing to consider going that route just the same. Could be fun!

As for 'universally appealing'...while the idea had briefly expanded in an attempt to catch all of the wayward IPCs, it's since returned back to a more solid shape focused solely on a specific humanoid biosynth aesthetic rather than that catch all. Could you expand on what's left that makes you think so? I enjoy writing 'open ended' lore in this kind of setting/server, but I didn't think I was appealing to 'everyone' here.

As for weaknesses...yes, I did indeed make them weaker. The only thing they have is the cold/heat res. Everything else is a net negative, taking more damage from most hazards one would find on the station. Heck, I'd give them more vulnerability to brute, too, but it kind of hit the point where I was stacking enough weaknesses onto them that I slowed down on that.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Per feedback:

• Reploids are now specifically limited to liquid foods. Per Correspond and Ven, this is already 'enough' for players to need to deal with.

Am thinking abt what else can be added. Not really interested in buffing brute or some other resist like that.

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

Now that this is in, I'd want to simply add it as the permanent 'default' for Reploids.

[TheHolyAegis]

Can I ask what this means? "Twitch?" If it's the screen flickering, then you really need to keep in mind with people who are sensitive to flickering lights

[ParasiteSaintLeech]

No, like...the body will twitch. Like when you get shocked or something.

[TheHolyAegis]

Ah, that makes more sense