From 5e0c9e7c2bce04a0791a9edab31f03cc8a66c4db Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2025 10:28:30 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 1/6] Commit --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 164 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ docs/monthly-meeting/index.rst | 1 + 2 files changed, 165 insertions(+) create mode 100644 docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md new file mode 100644 index 0000000..f9f38e4 --- /dev/null +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -0,0 +1,164 @@ +# Documentation Community Team Meeting (September 2, 2025) + +## Roll call + +(Name / `@GitHubUsername` *[/ Discord, if different]*) + +- Ryan Duve / `@ryan-duve` +- Hugo van Kemenade / `@hugovk` +- Carol Willing / `@willingc` +- Adam Turner / `@AA-Turner` +- Lufti Zuchri +- Irvan Putra / `irvan-putra` / `irvan.putra` +- Jacob Coffee / `@JacobCoffee` +- Stan Ulbrych / `@StanFromIreland` + + +## Discussion + +- [Hugo] What's the latest on the language mix-up? Do we know any translations + that still have the wrong language? Are there remaining languages that need + updating and CI unpausing? + + - [Adam] At least Japanese not yet unpaused. No update on + [python-docs-translations/transifex-automations#155](https://github.com/python-docs-translations/transifex-automations/issues/155). + + - [Hugo] Let's follow up on Discord. + + - [Carol] Let's have an hour session at the core sprint in two weeks so we all + understand the workflow. + +- [Petr] Paid Transifex plan for translations: [python/steering-council#297](https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/297) + + - [Hugo] Transifex is approved for one year. How can we evaluate its use towards the end of the year? + + - [Hugo] Pycon Greece had a good talk. Not using any web tools. + Teaching people how to use Git/GitHub and get involved in open source. + Spanish is similar. + + **Action: Hugo to share link** + + - [Adam] Also evaluated Weblate, it was around 5% less, but would involve + migrating all translations to a new platform, with added social cost. + + - [Carol] Suggests that by the end of the year evaluate CIs, and by PyCon US + evaluate if there are improvements for users, are they finding value, + and in what. Compare paid vs. unpaid. Gives us another quarter to evaluate + whether to go back to unpaid. + + - [Adam] Yes, each team has been working independently. There are benefits of + translating with similar tools and tech, for reducing workload and sharing + things. For teams that are currently using Transifex, hope we can evaluate + and see if we can bring in other teams to see if Transifex helps them. + + - [Carol] Lysandros from the Greek team spoke at the last Language Summit + about it and how to come up with best practices. + + - [Adam] Stan's recent split in the devguide really helped. + +- [Indonesian docs coordinators] We're trying to work out how to add a workflow + to support contributions via both Transifex and GitHub. Have any other + communities done this, or does it tend to be an all or nothing approach with Transifex? + + - [Stan] This has not been done yet, successfully. + + - [Lufti] Cannot sync two ways. What's the best practice? + + - [Stan] No existing solution - will need to set up a workflow, but could cause problems. + + - [Lufti] Not mandatory, so can do own thing for now. + + - [Stan] [Transifex documentation](https://developers.transifex.com/docs/cli) describes commands for pushing translations + + - [Irvan] When adding new translators, 50% like to use GitHub, and 50% like to use Transifex. + Those using Transifex are not communicating with others. + User experience at Transifex is not that good, but still looking to use. + Haven't decided which approach yet. + The diff conflicts if people modify the same file in different places. + + - [Stan] To contact translators on Transifex, you can use the [built-in forum](https://app.transifex.com/python-doc/teams/5390/discussions/) + + - [Hugo] Recommends using just GitHub or Transifex. + Recommends coordinators decide which works best for them, can include the + translation team, but coordinators decide. + Then they communicate it to the team. + Find a way of communicating that works, maybe the forum Stan mentions, + or ML, or Discord, or whatever. + We can create a dedicated channel if needed. + + - [Irvan] Someone just joined Transifex and contributed, we don't know who they are. + + - [Stan] This is also a benefit of TX, it advertises the project for us. + There are many people who translate open source projects on the platform. + + +- [Hugo] [Removing non-HTML (PDF, EPUB, etc) documentation downloads](https://discuss.python.org/t/removing-non-html-pdf-epub-etc-documentation-downloads/101343) + + 120 voters: + + | Option | Percentage | + |--------------------------------------------------|------------| + | I don’t care / I only use HTML / show results | 47% | + | Remove all non-HTML downloads | 36% | + | Keep the status quo (HTML, PDF, EPUB, and so on) | 12% | + | Remove PDF downloads | 5% | + | I don’t read/use Python’s documentation | 0% | + + If we bucket the top result as happy to remove any non-HTML + (because there's a separate button to show results): + + | Option | Percentage | + |--------------------------------------------------|------------| + | Remove all non-HTML downloads | 87% | + | Remove PDF downloads | 52% | + | Keep the status quo (HTML, PDF, EPUB, and so on) | 12% | + + - [Adam] Thinks we should discount the 47%. + Reticent to entirely remove PDF because there have been notionally valid use + cases, although skeptical of some — some said the PDF is a single file, but it's not. + Don't want to remove and cause unnecessary harm. + By far PDF is the biggest drain. The other one is for emacs. + From a resource perspective, I would like to remove them. But I am in two minds. + Releases also include these docs. + Find most docs bugs normal build, don't want to run into those on release day. + + - [Carol] Could see PDF or EPUB being useful in certain circumstances. + Is it ok just to build it when something is released? To not do backports on them? + In the science world, many have been dropping PDFs as they are time-consuming + and a pain. + For the dev branch, maybe build nightly or what the Release Manager thinks + is most useful. + + - [Adam] Now built three times per month. PDF and EPUB are kind of similar, + EPUB is much simpler, it is a load of XHTML in a zip, and takes like two mins. + PDF is hours for latex stuff. Potentially drop it, and 3.15 or 3.16 will have + no PDFs, and we can see if people complain. If genuinely useful in places + with worse internet, don't want to force people to create environments for + PDF generation — it's not easy. + + - [Adam] Suggestion: for beta, turn off PDF for what will become 3.16. + If we are to announce now, that's at least six months of lead time. + Don't know if we are overthinking the fallout of doing it. + Discourse/poll is populated by very online people and is not going to capture real users. + + **ACTION: hook up plausible to downloads** + +- [Jacob] Docs nightly load avg has started causing outages ~nightly around + 01:00CST (~0500,0600 UTC). Would like to work with someone to remediate. + Shared in Datadog with those that had accounts available (Adam, Hugo, Carol). + Started on Aug. 5th, continues sporadically (sometimes every 2 days, sometimes 9 days.) + + - [Hugo]+[Adam] Will help. + + +- [Adam] discussion about splitting pages. Any opposition to just starting with + simpler, standalone sections? Had a start a couple of times, never gotten to the PR stage. + + - [Carol] Do we have a list of target pages? + + - [Adam] Going by longest pages. Start with stdtypes and functions. + For example, could move all the string methods to their own page. + + - [Adam] Long ones: datamodel, typing, logging cookbook, and so on. + + - [Carol] Maybe logging cookbook could be a good start? diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/index.rst b/docs/monthly-meeting/index.rst index e01572c..67f210b 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/index.rst +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/index.rst @@ -25,3 +25,4 @@ Monthly reports in chronological order. Jun 2025 <2025-06.md> Jul 2025 <2025-07.md> Aug 2025 <2025-08.md> + Sep 2025 <2025-09.md> From 3c1ee8fc8e3158066cc83e4f55894c7b9f97f6b2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2025 10:32:25 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 2/6] Commit --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 14 +++++++------- 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-) diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md index f9f38e4..17e39b8 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@ - [Hugo] Pycon Greece had a good talk. Not using any web tools. Teaching people how to use Git/GitHub and get involved in open source. Spanish is similar. - + **Action: Hugo to share link** - [Adam] Also evaluated Weblate, it was around 5% less, but would involve @@ -58,7 +58,7 @@ - [Indonesian docs coordinators] We're trying to work out how to add a workflow to support contributions via both Transifex and GitHub. Have any other - communities done this, or does it tend to be an all or nothing approach with Transifex? + communities done this, or does it tend to be an all or nothing approach with Transifex? - [Stan] This has not been done yet, successfully. @@ -97,16 +97,16 @@ 120 voters: | Option | Percentage | - |--------------------------------------------------|------------| + |--------------------------------------------------|------------| | I don’t care / I only use HTML / show results | 47% | | Remove all non-HTML downloads | 36% | | Keep the status quo (HTML, PDF, EPUB, and so on) | 12% | | Remove PDF downloads | 5% | | I don’t read/use Python’s documentation | 0% | - If we bucket the top result as happy to remove any non-HTML - (because there's a separate button to show results): - + If we bucket the top result as happy to remove any non-HTML + (because there's a separate button to show results): + | Option | Percentage | |--------------------------------------------------|------------| | Remove all non-HTML downloads | 87% | @@ -145,7 +145,7 @@ - [Jacob] Docs nightly load avg has started causing outages ~nightly around 01:00CST (~0500,0600 UTC). Would like to work with someone to remediate. - Shared in Datadog with those that had accounts available (Adam, Hugo, Carol). + Shared in Datadog with those that had accounts available (Adam, Hugo, Carol). Started on Aug. 5th, continues sporadically (sometimes every 2 days, sometimes 9 days.) - [Hugo]+[Adam] Will help. From 78353a4c5b644123ac9d5176f412a7d6feb1a307 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych <89152624+StanFromIreland@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2025 20:01:47 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 3/6] Apply suggestions from code review Co-authored-by: Hugo van Kemenade <1324225+hugovk@users.noreply.github.com> --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 8 ++++---- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md index 17e39b8..4e527e9 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -83,12 +83,12 @@ translation team, but coordinators decide. Then they communicate it to the team. Find a way of communicating that works, maybe the forum Stan mentions, - or ML, or Discord, or whatever. + or mailing list, or Discord, or whatever. We can create a dedicated channel if needed. - [Irvan] Someone just joined Transifex and contributed, we don't know who they are. - - [Stan] This is also a benefit of TX, it advertises the project for us. + - [Stan] This is also a benefit of Transifex, it advertises the project for us. There are many people who translate open source projects on the platform. @@ -144,11 +144,11 @@ **ACTION: hook up plausible to downloads** - [Jacob] Docs nightly load avg has started causing outages ~nightly around - 01:00CST (~0500,0600 UTC). Would like to work with someone to remediate. + 01:00CST (~0500, 0600 UTC). Would like to work with someone to remediate. Shared in Datadog with those that had accounts available (Adam, Hugo, Carol). Started on Aug. 5th, continues sporadically (sometimes every 2 days, sometimes 9 days.) - - [Hugo]+[Adam] Will help. + - **ACTION: Hugo+Adam to help** - [Adam] discussion about splitting pages. Any opposition to just starting with From 6ce9169d98c0b02289eee394690ec6ef7e67cb01 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2025 20:02:51 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 4/6] Link to LS --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 3 ++- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md index 4e527e9..5f7f6df 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -51,7 +51,8 @@ things. For teams that are currently using Transifex, hope we can evaluate and see if we can bring in other teams to see if Transifex helps them. - - [Carol] Lysandros from the Greek team spoke at the last Language Summit + - [Carol] Lysandros from the Greek team spoke at the last + `Language Summit `_ about it and how to come up with best practices. - [Adam] Stan's recent split in the devguide really helped. From c0085ea7db627587ebf9f52e4eed3c0b6ce5537b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych <89152624+StanFromIreland@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2025 07:27:31 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 5/6] Thanks Hugo! Co-authored-by: Hugo van Kemenade <1324225+hugovk@users.noreply.github.com> --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 4 ++-- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md index 5f7f6df..6436d82 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -52,7 +52,7 @@ and see if we can bring in other teams to see if Transifex helps them. - [Carol] Lysandros from the Greek team spoke at the last - `Language Summit `_ + [Language Summit](https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2025/06/python-language-summit-2025-docs-editorial-board.html>) about it and how to come up with best practices. - [Adam] Stan's recent split in the devguide really helped. @@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ Don't know if we are overthinking the fallout of doing it. Discourse/poll is populated by very online people and is not going to capture real users. - **ACTION: hook up plausible to downloads** + **ACTION: hook up Plausible to downloads** - [Jacob] Docs nightly load avg has started causing outages ~nightly around 01:00CST (~0500, 0600 UTC). Would like to work with someone to remediate. From f366eaa94287e92c435b275c91ca16bda3535146 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Stan Ulbrych <89152624+StanFromIreland@users.noreply.github.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2025 16:42:38 +0100 Subject: [PATCH 6/6] Update docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md Co-authored-by: Ezio Melotti --- docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md index 6436d82..37fa3bd 100644 --- a/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md +++ b/docs/monthly-meeting/2025-09.md @@ -9,7 +9,7 @@ - Carol Willing / `@willingc` - Adam Turner / `@AA-Turner` - Lufti Zuchri -- Irvan Putra / `irvan-putra` / `irvan.putra` +- Irvan Putra / `@irvan-putra` / `irvan.putra` - Jacob Coffee / `@JacobCoffee` - Stan Ulbrych / `@StanFromIreland`